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Dreamkeepers Forums - State of Debate

Forum - Reality - Spamduruna

Subscribe to this thread State of Debate created by Kirito on February 5, 2015

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crazyhead422/27/15 11:42am
But what about the actions of the ISPs, who control the hardware which allows the internet to run as one large network? The ISPs have taken part in throtling websites which they don't want their customers to be using, occasionally blocked out sites, and want to have the ability to charge users based on the sites they wish to visit, not just the amount of bandwidth they use.

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sporefox12/27/15 1:00pm
Thought that was voted on yesterday and net neutrality was in place and protected by the FCC now o.o

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crazyhead422/27/15 1:05pm
Yes, through Title II regulations.

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BryanDimmsdale3/11/15 5:38pm
Start with religion. Once the bickering started, there's no turning back.

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Kirito3/11/15 5:42pm
My standpoint on religion is that I respect all faiths no matter what they are. I could really care less about who you pray to.

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crazyhead423/11/15 7:11pm
I actually have a negative opinion on religion in general.

Religion is often used as two things: an excuse to get away with acts considered haneous (Sorry for spelling, couldn't get close enough), and a means to control people and guide them away from logic and reason. Even shows exactly what I mean by giving people an excuse. And you've met Asora and saw him during his anti-gay rages. These things aren't normal in the minds of an average human (I hope). Religion lead to the crusades and justified (in their minds) the acts of 9-11. This disturbs me deeply.

These acts would probably be persecuted immediately if there was no religious backing, and perhaps if there was no religious backing, he would not be so warped into thinking that this was okay, because it really really isn't. I don't have evidence to support my later claim though.

On top of that, any group major seen as "wrong" or "evil" is either called "godless heathens" or used to slander another religion. The part about calling people "godless heathens" puts me off of the idea of religion especially. I know for a F.A.C.T. that morality is not dependent on religion. So why then do religions always push like if we aren't with THEIR brand of religion, we must be horrible people, or that if we are horrible people but not THEIR kind of horrible people, we must not be in their religion? The later I guess makes sense, but only until it becomes slander.
I may have put too much thought into this over the years...

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ST34LTH3/14/15 4:45pm
Too much thought, would have been to thoroughly consider both sides; and yet even that isn't enough.

Pardon me for saying this, but you're being rather one sided about this and only evaluating the extremist part of the religious society. I get being appalled by these acts you mentioned, I am too, but just as it is wrong for the extremists to brand those who do not follow their ideals heathens, you're stepping into just as murky waters by archetyping religious folks by an image provided by a rather small (albeit loud) minority.

While I'm tempted to ask your evidence in regards to the 'F.A.C.T.' about morality, I believe that would be pointless (Since I believe and hope it was merely meant for emphasis and not in the literal sense), and instead challenge you to look at the origins of our western moralities and the state of non-western morality. The morals we think so obvious and natural today, are in fact largely based on religious values.

To add to the above point, I will not claim for it to be impossible to 'be moral' without religion; the morals are just different and in some cases downright inhuman, in the eyes of modern society.

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crazyhead423/16/15 5:11pm

I would love to feel that this was only the work of a hand full of extremists, however it seems that although few act on these ideals, many seem to have them. These ideals often include male superiority to females and a level of obedience of people to whoever is in the higher caste. I will admit, however, that most of my evidence is anecdotal.

My 'F.A.C.T' was based on me and was emphasized because I am simply tired of the argument about people who are not religious being amoral. Being atheist myself (Or misotheist, depending on the day) I can assure you that it is possible to have a moral compass when not dealing with any kind of "God". Even when my moral compass is off, I can say with certainty that it is no more off than anybody else's. Your statement that people without religion have inhuman morals is quite frankly a tiny bit insulting, and the idea that I would have different moral values than you do is more complex than you let on.

I don't know many religious people who are okay with the things I am okay with, such as gay people getting married and raising adopted children. But this is not about the religious people, but the religions themselves. How can gay people getting married be a bad thing? Why is it that when religions break themselves off from certain traditions, such as restrictions on clothing, that they can still cite tradition for others? And why are most religions saying "This is it, look no further?"

Maybe some churches, or even most aren't like that. But the ones I've had experience with are not that way, and it seems easier to find ones that are than to find ones that aren't. Even when I thought I found a good one, I found out otherwise the second time I was there. When I wanted to read the bible for the first time, it was a religious person who put me off of it again by attempting to convert me despite that not being my purpose for reading the Bible. His lack of respect for me and my desires was quite noted.

The implication of those stories? I did try to learn about the religion, twice as a conscious decision. Neither time did I get close enough to actually observe the positive aspects of religion due to it's negative aspects.

But back to the religions themselves: I have seen a number of good people who happen to be religious comment on things and be good people, but I have rarely seen a church which expresses that same quality. Religions get corrupted over time, and split every time a change needs to be made.

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Kirito3/16/15 6:16pm
I think that people shouldn't be judged by a group they belong to. A faith doesn't necessarily determine personality.

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crazyhead423/16/15 7:04pm
Agreed Kirito, but the question was of the group and concept, not of those that belong to it.

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