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Dreamkeepers Forums - Volume 3: Intentions Entwined. Discussion Thread!

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Subscribe to this thread Volume 3: Intentions Entwined. Discussion Thread! created by Avolendi on February 17, 2013

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Avolendi2/17/13 3:43am
*** SPOILERS ***

Continuation of http://dreamkeepers.forums-free.com/viewtopic.php?p=42184#p42184

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So just finished reading V3 (took my time). Some impressions I want to note after reading the volume and this thread.

Felt that Vanth having something to do with the Troopers showing up (directly or indirectly) was clear enough, even without the notes at the end, although those did change probably into definitely and showed she's most likely Troika's nr 9 infiltrant. After reading that I was mostly wondering whether she called the Troika to start the Operation Guillotine or the Troopers directly. I had the impression she called the Troika because of the corroborating reports suggesting multiple sources calling it in. As for the fast responce, on page 26/27 it's mentioned Troopers are on standby.

As for Vincent/Cuddles, I can imagine that Namah dropped him off at Jeneviv and Kalei parents, without directly meeting them, for example if they have a kennel. However this is creating a plausible explanation without any hints, so this doesn't argue with the plot hole aspect of it.
At least feels better than assuming Namah meeting the parents who want to know about their daughters. This scenario would also allow for Namah and Lilith to perhaps still be unaware that they are missing.

Regarding poking at the plot holes and thinking about constructive feedback, I'll leave that for another time and when I've read the Volume more than once. Wanted to avoid reading critically on the first go so I could enjoy it properly ^^

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MartinSSFox2/17/13 6:27pm
I really enjoyed the first two volumes but V3 was so much better! I was so impressed with how it was presented.

One thing that surprised me was the amount of swearing. Not that I'm complaining, I just thought that things were going to stay closer to PG. Between the swearing, violence, and suggestive stuff it has a edgier feel that I think works well for where the story is starting to go.

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BigEasy2/17/13 10:04pm
I noticed that Vanth was never named in the pages of Volume 3, I only remembered her name by looking in the production pages in the back. As a lay reader I would have never figured it out, and as an informed reader I still am unsure if the character will have any significance in later volumes. If she was not named in the story proper, how can we identify her when she appears?
That's not to say that we'll never see her again, or that she's not important or significant in some way, just that it's odd that she was never directly identified. This could be easily fixed in volume 4 or onward. She's been arrested, so one of the troopers could name her during processing. Simple.

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Kobalt952/18/13 12:02am
I'm gonna try and knock all of my thoughts about the book out in one post so here we go:

Volume 1 was a great start to the series.

Volume 2 was a substantial step up from the first.

Volume 3 has shown the biggest changes and advances so far in my opinion.

I really feel that with Volume 3, Dave and Liz are getting closer to nailing down a style and format that will carry on throughout the entire GN saga. To tell you the truth, though, I can't fathom the thought of the artwork becoming even better than it already is! XD It seems like the leap from V2 to V3 was the biggest as well. In this volume we have more mature, edgier content, sleeker art, and a bigger overall picture of what exactly is happening.

I seriously did not expect characters to start dropping F-bombs, but the ones who do actually warrant their use. (The Neon Knives, Nightmares, Dark Dreamkeepers etc.) When they do use those words they actually fit the situation. I am very pleased with how the strip club scene turned out, as it never really showed anything too graphic. (Was worried at first that it might get a little awkward, but it never did. ;) )

One of the biggest surprises for me was Woods, Bill, and Damon joining the Troika. (Or Nainso being involved with them for that matter.) I in no way shape or form saw that happening, but now since I did- I love it! It makes perfect sense if you think about it as well- guards that once served the government are now entrenched in an organization that defies it. (Woods + Indi FTW)

Another thing I didn't see coming was Namah falling for Bast. When I first noticed, I was like WTH? But now that I think about it- they could possibly be a good match for each other. I was pleasantly surprised.

Continuing with the trend of things I didn't see coming, was that I didn't expect Kalei coming into the story so soon. She was in a crowd scene in V1, but I thought the wait would be longer until we saw her make a splash in the GN series. I was once again, pleasantly surprised!

The confrontation between Mace and Ravat in the church basement was a lot more tense than I imagined it would be. (This was one of the things I DID see coming, but it still caught me off guard in some places.) Now I know that Mace and Whip wouldn't have died in that situation as this IS only the 3rd book, but still... I had the feeling that they were going to die in some parts of the face off! What makes it all work though, is the way that Ravat tries to coerce Mace into using his power by taunting, intimidating, and insulting him. That was crazy! I can't even begin to imagine what Mace was feeling or thinking when that bastard used grisly details of Paige's murder to get under his skin... I was also impressed with how he got out of that horrific situation.

I love the addition of Tendril to the Dreamkeepers rouges gallery! I found the scene with him in the library where he's chasing Lilith while using Mr. Peaks as a skin puppet very creepy at first (and I still do in many ways), but the more times I read it the more I love it. It was a good parallel to the Mace/Ravat scene in terms of tension and darkness, and added more of a horror element to the book. I love how pompous and pretentious Tendril seems at first, but as soon as Lilith begins critiquing his poetry he shows his true, vulgar nature and resorts to using common foul language to intimidate her. (This was also shown in "Tendril's Demise") And the way that Lilith gets out of that predicament is simply brilliant! It really shows that she is beginning to develop the wit and skills to hold her own in the face of danger and become more independent of other's help. Looks like Lilith has a new arch-enemy...

Come to think of it, does anyone else think that each of the five main protagonists are going to have a sort of "Arch-nemesis"? (It won't be addressed directly, but it has to do more with themes than anything.)

Mace/Whip-Ravat/Randy?
Namah-Tinsel/Wisp?
Lilith-Tinsel/Tendril?
Bast-Vox/O-Naicul?

I know it might sound stupid, and this isn't anything like a superhero comic or anything of the sort, it's just fun to speculate on literary devices and such... :P

It also sucks how Namah can't even get the city's biggest BS artist to believe her... Poor little demon-imp-Dreamkeeper. :(

I'm also glad that Vi made it into this one. I am now curious as to what the Troika's training methods are... hopefully we shall see in V4. Seeing Woods, Bill, and Damon fail at the exercises comically would bring me much joy... >:) (In a comedic way, mind you.)

Also I genuinely feel sorry for Wisp after that last page...

The only question remaining is... WHAT'S NEXT?! :D

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MartinSSFox2/18/13 11:03am
That just about sums up most of our thoughts I think.

I personally found the confrontation between Mace and Ravat to be the most engaging for me. I couldn't help but feel what Mace would have been feeling given the situation. It must of hurt him hearing about Paige as well.

One thing that brought me out of the suspense was when Ravat was telling Mace to use his power. I guess I'm gullible enough to believe that that was how Mace was going to get out of there and I got a little excited. I was a little let down but only for about a second until I saw the coins. And then I laughed.

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TruthQuest2/19/13 3:15pm
Who Didn't! Hah, Grunn is the laazist blob in the world!

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Esayo2/22/13 2:57pm
Got to read V3 today! AGCA

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ezioauditore972/22/13 5:59pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fPd2AxU-zSo New audio drama from Darkspeeds!Who wants the honor of sharing it with Dave during the next chat if Darkspeeds does not show up?

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CalvinCopyright2/23/13 5:39am
You know, I do think that there are some obscure points in the story, though. There was the 'Cuddles cage' thing, and Bast's apparently senseless confrontation with O'naicul. As to the latter, though...

It took me a while, but I finally realized that right after Bast discovers that the scroll he stole from Mace is Randy's, that "LongFlown" is actually Vanth, not Mace. Then, when he goes to the gang hideout, he must have had some plan in mind to protect Lilith from stuff - maybe he would have given their future locations if they could take refuge there for a while. Either way, he also went to find out from Vanth directly just who the 'entourage' is. He was probably hoping not to be noticed, though; he picked up the fact that Vox noticed him pretty quickly - saying "Hurry up" right after Vox looked at him, even before Vox started yelling Bast's name - he was probably watching the group. However, once Vanth said that the girls were wanted dead, all his plans were blown out of the water. The only thing he could do, most likely, to avoid a fight with Vox was to keep up his alibi for coming there - which was to give info on the girls. And once he was brought in front of O'naicul, he stated an excuse for them to call off the hunt that was probably hastily thought up. Now, I was also confused as to how O'naicul knew Bast was lying. It's possible that Nabonidus or a really trusted messenger explicitly told him not to stop the search, but that's unlikely. Rather, since O'naicul seemed to show legitimate confusion "Why the nethers did he flip on this??" I think he, lacking unconditional belief in Bast's story, simply decided to spook him by lunging from the bath and snapping his jaws at him (it took me a while to work out what he did there, too) to see how Bast reacted. When Bast ran, he had the rest of the gang go after him to grab him and see what his real story was.

That's how I think the Creators wanted it to play out. I could be mistaken, though.

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Esayo2/23/13 9:13am
@Calvin
That's a pretty good thought. Finding out the girl's were wanted dead definitely would have been a monkey wrench in his plan.
I think the turning point though might have been when Bast agreed that Nabonidus was a "half-pint", and maybe also the "handshake" thing, seeing as he didn't exactly seem to have arms.
Just a thunk, from what I read.

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CalvinCopyright2/23/13 6:44pm
Oh goodness, now I know what happened to Cuddles.

Look at Namah when she's entering Boore's office. Look around by her feet. The vent cover's askew. She snuck through the vents to get past security and junk. Plus, the other bag (the big one that she told Lilith to carry) is also missing - she only has her folders and evidence. She HAD to have left Cuddles' cage and her bag where she entered the vent, in a secluded place.

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Esayo2/23/13 8:43pm
Hoo boy, you're right.
Cuddles to the rescue.

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MrAerospace2/24/13 12:44am
Ok, let's set a few things straight.
When Bast realises he's got a phoney scroll and can't contact the girls, he remembers Lilith said something about a "Nabonidus". Knowing the girls have been attacked by Tinsel then Wisp and a great big monster, he reasons that the Neon-Knives might know something about such a violent set of events, and when confirmed by Vanth he goes to investigate further.

When he gets there, he hurries Vanth about info only after he sees Vox notice him, and Vox interrupts just at the wrong moment, when Bast is reeling from the news that Lilith and Namah have Death Warrants on their heads. Understandably upset, he recklessly lashes out at Vox, and then tries to call off O'Naicul and the gang using a bluff. Name dropping Nabonidus while improvising a story was a stupidly dangerous risk, and (as Esayo points out) O'Naicul called the tallest person he knows a 'half pint' on purpose to call Bast's bluff. Bast falls for it, and that's when O'Naicul attacks him.

Also: Yay! Someone else finally put the skewed vent cover and missing bags together! Of course it doesn't resolve what happened at the twins house, but it does explain why she doesn't have her bags with her there.

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DarkAnge12/24/13 3:19am
On that note, I'll take the opportunity to ask a question that has been bugging me:

What's with the bird on O'Naicul's head? It grabs Bast's attention just before things go south. It also makes an brief appearance just before the building collapses.

Now I could be reading too much into this (in fact it's *very* likely that I am), but could this be the REAL O'Naicul? I mean, a tiny dreamkeeper with mind control powers? finding the biggest, baddest thug and...

Oh right. No halo.

Well, it could still be that the "big guy" is just a mule, pretending to be the boss while carrying the real boss around, maybe getting orders through subtle taps. I mean, something like that *would* be handy when, for example, a rival gang comes calling.

Or it could just be O'Naicul's "toothbrush"

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Esayo2/24/13 7:50am
Whatever that bird was, it found its way to my top 5 favorite characters list.
Mind-Control bird ftw.

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